"not for canada - australian in disguise" (for-canada) 09/14/2016 at 23:36 • Filed to: None

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If the first gen Mercury Mariner was a store, it would be Sears.

If it was a beverage, it would be Crystal Light.

If it was a TV show, it would be Extreme Makeover: Home Edition

The absolute last word in mid-2000s malaise. The same way a final gen J-Body is 90s malaise, or how a Dodge 600 is 80s malaise, you get my point.

And I commend it for that. You do you, Mercury Mariner, don’t let anybody st-

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Oh, wait, yeah.

Axial > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/14/2016 at 23:43

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I submit that 1996-2006 is the worst period for cars since 1974-1984. It was bad. Horrible.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Axial 09/14/2016 at 23:44

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“ERhg”

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/14/2016 at 23:53

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this car is like a frozen hungryman meal. good looking at first on the box. disgusting to look at in the open, horrifying when cooked, and depressing after being eaten.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/14/2016 at 23:57

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Wasn’t there something here about Lincoln naming a second ago...

not for canada - australian in disguise > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 09/14/2016 at 23:58

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no i don’t know what you’re talking about i never said anything about lincoln what’s a lincoln didn’t he get shot in the head a few years ago

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/15/2016 at 00:02

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkMqW1…

lone_liberal > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/15/2016 at 00:10

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You, sir, have insulted my daily driver! I’m good with that. I would say that the V6 is adequate and that it has a small turning radius so it’s maneuverable around town.

Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes > Axial 09/15/2016 at 00:30

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How about just ‘96+?

Axial > Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes 09/15/2016 at 00:32

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Nah, some great things happened in ‘09 (Mustang) and it’s been mostly up-hill since.

Except the NSX. Fuck that ham of a car.

Alex Zapata > Axial 09/15/2016 at 00:40

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For American cars yes, but the rest of the World was making pretty great cars during that period.

Aren’t American cars always shit in retrospect, though? (I mean since the mid 70s, anything before is incredible)

Couple of examples:

Axial > Alex Zapata 09/15/2016 at 00:52

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I don’t think all American cars are shit from ‘70s onward. I think it’s a values thing.

In Europe, you pay $XX and get anaemic powerplants, decent suspension, well-made interiors, good-enough exteriors.

In America, you get great powerplants, good-enough suspension, mediocre interiors, good-enough exteriors.

JDM is similar to Europe, only their exterior styling is typically gag-inducing. Japanese imports...gag-inducing styling but with bigger engines.

Both are built to about the same standard. You trade initial quality for ease of maintenance when comparing the two. And even suspension, it’s not really that American ones are bad so much as they are tuned differently.

Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes > Axial 09/15/2016 at 00:57

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Of course there are always outliers. I just don’t see most new cars as much more than appliances. *Most* aren’t very fun to drive, while I could drive a stock, automatic, 80s corrola and have fun. A lot of it has to do with nostalgia and the new (and useful to a lot of people, though personally I’d rather not have it) technology which adds a bit of weight.

All I really care about is A/C, a heater, a stereo, and cruise control so I suppose cars peaked a while ago in my eyes.

Alex Zapata > Axial 09/15/2016 at 01:03

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I agree on the tuning thing, if you’re in America you want an American car 10 times out of 10.

On the other hand, while I appreciate the part about ease of maintenance, but I would not consider your average run of the mill Chevy 2 l or Ford Ecotec a great powerplant, give me an “anemic” BMW 3 cylinder TwinPower engine any day of the week.

I find it strange the way european cars wear and tear when used on US roads, the experience is vastly different for us in Mexico, maybe because our roads are a lot closer to what they have in Europe and also in the US you do more pure distance.

On the Japanese front, it’s a matter of taste, design is, so that is neither here nor there.

Axial > Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes 09/15/2016 at 01:15

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Call me weird, but the new Volt interests me. I think it’s an exciting car in a different way. The Golf R, GTI, FiST, FoST, FoRS are all things. WRX. The Challenger/Charger/300 were pretty cool when they came out but have gotten significantly better every year, which is impressive given their age. All of the muscle/pony cars are jaw-dropping performance machines for the entirety of their price ranges.

I mean, I tend to agree about the appliance bit, but I wouldn’t say it’s because the cars are bad as much as I would say it’s because of nostalgia. Most cars in the ‘80s and ‘90s weren’t very fun to drive, either, and unless you drive something that was high-end back then most of the fun you’ll find today simply comes from going fast on an old frame with relatively shoddy construction.

Also velour seats. Gimme dat blue and white fuzzy speckles!

Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes > Axial 09/15/2016 at 01:26

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I agree, it is mostly nostalgia. And the fact that cars were worse in almost every way almost makes them better to me if that makes sense. More fun at least.

Like I said, I think a lot of the performance cars are still fun, and they do their job better than ever stock, I’m just talking about cars in general though. From crap like the Jeep compass, to your run of the mill camrys. They certainly aren’t getting more exciting.

Also +1 for velour seats.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/15/2016 at 01:27

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“If it was a beverage, it would be Crystal Light.”

You stole that from Mr. Regular’s review of the new Mazda6

Axial > Alex Zapata 09/15/2016 at 01:29

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I dunno, I swear the Japanese go out of their way to do exactly the opposite of what looks good. They know exactly which of their cars get universally praised on styling (2000 GT, 240/260/280 Z, ‘90s Honda, LFA, etc.) and actively avoid calling to those looks in pretty much all of their cars. The new Prius is aggressively offensive.

For the engines, I don’t really think any modern car will give you trouble, it’s more that per dollar you will usually get more power from an American car. For $35,000 do I want that bottom-spec BMW 3-series with the 180 HP 4-banger or do I want the top-spec Chrysler 200C with the 295 HP V6? What do you value more?

not for canada - australian in disguise > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 09/15/2016 at 08:02

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i don’t know what you’re talking about

you did

Alex Zapata > Axial 09/15/2016 at 09:29

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Personally, driving dynamics, design, RWD, initial build quality and depreciation rates will make me buy the BMW any day of the week; I am willing to bet you any amount of money that the BMW with it’s power deficit and all, could go faster around a track than the 200, also roads in my country have bends so driving dynamics are important so you don’t fall off a cliff trying to drive fast.

Also when buying a Daily Driver, economy is important *to some people and that 4 banger is really good on fuel economy on the city and on the road.

I know it only applies to me (and the 20 million people that live in my city) but at my city’s height, the 200 would not be much faster than a 320...

Axial > Alex Zapata 09/15/2016 at 12:10

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BMW has made noise about going FWD in the future, but still that was perhaps too much of an apples and oranges comparison. Better would have been Camaro or Mustang. Bottom end on the BMW gets you into the V8 on those, and the driving dynamics are a toss-up. Alternatively, 5er versus SS, Corvette versus Cayman, Fiesta vs Polo, Focus vs Golf, and even the Cruze versus Jetta.

Alex Zapata > Axial 09/15/2016 at 16:54

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Are VWs particularly expensive in the US, over here they’re very comparable prices, though usually the VW offerings tend to be turbo, which is a huge advantage, again because we’re so high up.

We don’t get the SS so I have no idea how it stacks up, on the Corvette vs. Cayman front I think for the price of a base Corvette you can get a Cayman S, which is not the fastest, but build quality and depreciation is not even on the same league; new Corvettes are pretty fantastic but Porsche is just a step and a bit ahead (I would buy a Corvette, personally)

Axial > Alex Zapata 09/15/2016 at 22:08

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Ish? A little bit. But really, we’re not looking at price of the cars in question so much as where that money goes on the car. For GTI money, you can choose to sacrifice some of the interior quality and luxury options to get a more powerful engine in the Focus ST. Corvette? Interior is still pretty nice, but it’s no Cayman. But then again, a Cayman won’t spank a 911 on a track. The Corvette will. That’s the trade, and that’s the difference between an American car and a European one.

As for depreciation, prices I see for older Caymans says they depreciate as much as the late model Corvettes, they just take a little longer longer to do it. Personally, though, I only buy cars I want as cars; depreciation is not even a consideration.

RT > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/18/2016 at 05:24

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Literally every malaise era only affects the American automotive industry, but not much else.

The 70s had some of the best classic cars around, but American cars dipped in quality after the fuel crisis. The 00s were pretty innovative, but most of Detroit was having some form of severe financial struggle at the time.

Basically every time FoMoCo, GM or Mopar makes a mistake, people claim an entire era went wrong. That doesn't make much sense imo.

not for canada - australian in disguise > RT 09/18/2016 at 13:50

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The Seventies British motor industry would have to beg to differ.

But yeah, I agree for the most part.

RT > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/18/2016 at 15:25

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Agree completely, was about to mention BL but just didn’t for sake of length.

That’s the only exception I can really think of though, I don’t remember much of a decline elsewhere (unless smaller stuff like Daimler-Chrysler and Japanese cars made in the lost decade count).

Matthew Phillips > not for canada - australian in disguise 09/18/2016 at 16:13

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I feel like it would be Lane Bryant...